Curse

Mitchel · Oct 02, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Ignoring obvious troll above, this idea is terribaed, because Shadow Stepping takes positioning out of the game, which is very important.

TL,DR: Shadow Steps need to stay dead

Raul the Rampant · Oct 02, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Well I'm not really a fan of shadowstepping either, but when I look at how assassins were designed it seems to me that they were designed to overextend for a short period of time to deal damage (thus the large armor-ignoring dps), but be punished for trying to do too much (thus the low AL); shadowstepping seems like a pretty important concept to the class if my logic is somewhat valid. That said, the aftercast was added because it was being abused... but maybe there's a way to make both sides happy?

How about removing the aftercast effect and instead creating a sort of longer precast delay? The skill description for a shadowstep would read "In 1 second you shadow step to target foe..." Then, during that 1 second delay something would show up in the effects monitor of the target indicating that a skill was used (something like Tengu's Gaze that says "An assassin is shadow stepping to you.") I don't think it should be a hex, but rather a non-removable effect like TG... this would encourage teamwork in organized pvp (the targeted player would have to call it to alert his prot monk), and would still allow the skills to be used through holy veil or hex breaker. The model would already have an in game precedent, too, so implementing it might not be that much of a problem.

I can't say for sure yet since I can't really test it, but I think this could still provide the targeted person and/or their team a window to react (like the aftercast was intended to do) without detracting from the assassin's designed intent. I could maybe see it being abused in lower level pvp though (RA especially since people tend to ignore enchants and hexes on them anyway), so anyone have any thoughts?

Keekles · Oct 02, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Raul, your idea could work, but the 1 second 'effect' indicator would make it even harder for sins to spike a monk, and even easier for a ranger to d-shot the sin's lead. 3/4ths of a second before you can attack them is fine. Like I've said, I'd rather have shadowsteps removed from the game entirely.

As I've said, and other people have said, shadowsteps are broken. In fact, the assassin as a whole is somewhat broken. It does not have a definite role for it to fill other than splits and ganking.

as for this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeroX

one question --- "Why dont ppl use assassins in GvG?"
and dont say dps coz thats a positive lol. if anything, theres more negatives now.

People don't really use assassins in GvG anymore because, as far as I know, warriors can pressure and spike, while sins only really can spike. The sin as a class was broken, AoD sins can still be used, but the current meta-game does not seem to favor sin-splits, thus you don't see many assassins. I haven't seen many dervishes either, but they, like the assassin aren't terribly good at pressure, whereas the warriors are the kings of pressure.

N1ghtstalker · Oct 02, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

KD is a powerful mechanic in the game
less QQ, more pew pew
/notsigned

Vallisahllirium · Oct 02, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Selene

Delete monks: they heal people so I cant kill them

Delete Eles: They cause AoE and whipe my party

Delete Warriors: They have to much armor and health

Delete Rits: Spirits kill the game

Delete Necros: Invincy MM's ruin AB

Delete Mesmers: Hexs and interupts are lame

Delete Rangers: Touchers are so noobish

Delete Dervs: Just because

Lets all play Paragons!!!!!

The best post

Well...I have been playing only sin for about 1 and half year...all updates didn`t bothering me but aftercast was the end (now I stated ranger :P )...As I see it, point of sins is to quickly strike (kill) and escape...thats why they are so fun. And Anet has added aftercast to nerf warrior shadowstep builds, but with that they have destroyed most fun part of playing sin...my opinion at least...btw, idea of warrior with tons of armor who is shadowsteping is hillarious

Konig Des Todes · Oct 02, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeroX

-snip rant on shadow stepping nerf-

First, there are shadow step skills that did not get the aftercast (that is Augury of Death, Beguiling Haze, Ride the Lightning*yeah, an ele skill, still worth bringing up*, Shadow Fang, and Scorpion Wire *that's just to foes*), want a shadow step so badly now? try them out.

.75 seconds isn't THAT much anyways. Although .5 seconds would be a bit more fair for the sins, or maybe a hurt on non-assassins because I think that was the biggest problem.

Quote:

-snip bit on Horns of the Ox-

Yeah, Horns could use higher damage, in comparison to Trampling Ox.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Perma-Sin doesn't use PvE only skills, so use that for GvG. :O

I hope to god you are joking.

Rak Orgon of Beowulf · Oct 02, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

how about this... if a ranger has whirling defense or a monk has a warrior blocking stance and your finding it that much of a problem, go /N and fit rigor mortis in its what i do... Also to the monks complaining about protting yourself...hit tab if you see an assassin maybe you should pre-prot yourself instead of just whining...blah blah i couldn't tell he was by me blah blah
.75 isnt that bad considering if my chain works i can take a monk down in 8-9 seconds. i think no class should be perfect any time or always... i think .75 is fine

/notsigned

farmerfez · Oct 02, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

I might've actually taken that seriously if you could actually spell.

MisterB · Oct 02, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

I don't particularly like shadow steps in PvP because it removes positioning and mobility from tactical play. Adding aftercast, which you wish to remove, was a step in the right direction. I would much rather see them removed or reworked entirely.

Please use a spell checker if you have diifficulty spelling. Random bold tags are annoying.

uzumaki · Oct 02, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Sins need a buff. They are just a weak melee class now and with so much reliance on chaining skills they are too fragile and inferior to other melee classes. Dervish/adrenaline skills dont necessarily need to be chained and so attack skills being disabled/blinded/blocked suffer much less consequence... so what are sins good for now? A 123 unblockable chain? Yeah.. that's about it. Shadowsteps are dead but i agree with the aftercast. You can deal with the aftercast by using shock or iron palm but both have big drawbacks (long recharge + exaustion). Having low armor and fragile attack chains leaves a limited style of play. So what can you do? backline/ganking overextenders? Sins are weak in pvp imo

Moebius sins were decent until they decided to kill the damage on dual attacks.

furyow · Oct 02, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallisahllirium

The best post

And Anet has added aftercast to nerf warrior shadowstep builds, but with that they have destroyed most fun part of playing sin...my opinion at least...btw, idea of warrior with tons of armor who is shadowsteping is hillarious

That’s the primary reason for shadow step nerf, most people just assume sins were too powerful and it needed nerf.
If you fail to notice a sin chewing on you back in pvp environments then learn to be vigilant, observer your surroundings.
Even before the shadow step nerf, you could hardly see sins in gvgs.
It's was only due to secondary classes started to take advantage of assassin skills, e.g. wounding stike ragers, criplalsh/hammer, crit scyth sins, all with shadow steps.
Noob Gladiators was one of top gvg guilds abusing sins in secondary classes(rather fun way), however you could hardly see them in gvgs any more.

I used to love playing assassin and shadow step skills are staple to majority of sin builds (imo).

It's a shame, just to stop secondary classes from using core assassin skills they've crippled sin profession for what it used to be.

AshenX · Oct 02, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Selene

Delete monks: they heal people so I cant kill them

Delete Eles: They cause AoE and whipe my party

Delete Warriors: They have to much armor and health

Delete Rits: Spirits kill the game

Delete Necros: Invincy MM's ruin AB

Delete Mesmers: Hexs and interupts are lame

Delete Rangers: Touchers are so noobish

Delete Dervs: Just because

Lets all play Paragons!!!!!

lol, oh and whats an invincy MM ? Are they the necros that take a few seconds longer to kill after you interrupt their skills?

Rhamia Darigaz · Oct 02, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Selene

Delete Warriors: They have to much armor and health

ppl who say warriors have lots of health make me rage.
they have the same amount of health as any other class except dervish!
RAAAAGGGGEEEE!!!!!!11one
also ur whole post was baed.

MagmaRed · Oct 02, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

I hope to god you are joking.

Yes, that was a joke. I'm sad that you had to ask though

Master Ketsu · Oct 02, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Shadow steps don't need to die, they just need to be made less degenerate by placing conditional restrictions on them.

-Shadow steps that return you to your original location ( AoD, shadow walk, meld ) Should fail on the return trip if sins are not in casting range of where they first teleported from.

-Line of F***ing sight. Seriously. Assassins shadowstepping through walls and bridges is nonsense and bad for the game.

-No more of this "push button, teleport, 12345" nonsense. Add conditions. Like "if target foe is using a skill, you shadow step to their location." or "if foe is below 50% health".

Dr.Jones · Oct 02, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

i would like to see it that any form of shadow steping is limited to the sin...

HawkofStorms · Oct 02, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Yes, that was a joke. I'm sad that you had to ask though

Well, it is sad to ask... but some people really are just that dumb to make comments like that (like the OP).

Luckly, most regular posters here know that you aren't one of those people Magma.

Master Ketsu · Oct 02, 2008, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Jones

i would like to see it that any form of shadow steping is limited to the sin...

Moving AoD, Meld, Shadow walk, and deaths charge to CS with 75% chance failure with 2 or less would also be good.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 02, 2008, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Yes, that was a joke. I'm sad that you had to ask though

The only reason why I said I hope your joking (which was not a question

) is because of this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

I personally don't use a Sin in PvP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Moving AoD, Meld, Shadow walk, and deaths charge to CS with 75% chance failure with 2 or less would also be good.

Yeah... that doesn't really fit with the description of Critical Strikes. Although they don't do much for Deadly arts either I guess. But with a % failure of 6 or less would be good for Assassin secondaries (and 3 or less for Assassin Primaries, for the low level assassins to enjoy their Death's Charge).

Master Ketsu · Oct 02, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

what difference does it make for secondaries if a primary skill is % chance to fail at 1 or 16 ? They still cant use it.